Read & React Offense
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Post-up vs a cut: What’s the difference?
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Post-up vs a cut: What’s the difference?
Rick (or anyone who has thoughts):
I always appreciate how much work you do to keep it simple. Please help me simplify the approach to a zone.
1. Why isn’t the hook into the high post (logo) considered a post up? Why aren’t we treating the logo catch as a post play and fold it into layer 2?
2. In Nail’em/Flank’em, when the wing hits the high or low post with a pass, wouldn’t the wing do a laker cut?
3. Did I just answer my own question? Do we want to to avoid the wing having to cut (as it would mess up the high/low action of Nail’em/Flank’em), so we don’t call it a post, but rather a cut?
4. How do I help my kids distinguish between a post-up and a cut?
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8 Replies
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Coach Todd: You have asked some good questions, getting into the nuts and bolts of the R&R. I am definitely interested in the feedback of others. I will answer your questions in the context of our zone attack, which was 4 out, with a permanent SC running the baseline. Players would hook once and fill out. There are other formations of course you could use to fit your team. Reasons I preferred this formation include a) Simplicity to teach b) Having someone in the SC running behind the zone forces the defense to “flatten out” and creates space in the logo area c) As the ball moves and players act, the SC will get “lost” a surprising amount of the time as they roam the baseline behind the defense d) When someone attacks the basket, the SC will be often open for a dump off pass/shot as the zone collapses e) SC will get really easy opportunities for offensive rebounds.
On to your questions!
1) I viewed the player hooking into the zone as a cutter, and as such, the passer is not required to cut. It was a pass and cut move, not a laker cut. The practical result is that it helps declutter the logo area.
2) When a player hit the SC with a pass, THAT was a laker cut, and the passer was required to cut. Passers loved this BTW as it was another shot at getting the ball back.
3) Yes
4) Against player-to-player defense, someone posting up was a post player, not a cutter. Against a zone, he was cutter. Passers should act accordingly. -
Great stuff, and super helpful. I don’t have confidence in my middle school kids to remember if they are playing against a zone or man D when they are deciding whether to cut or not, so I’m going to try to fuse a simpler solution.
I’ve already decided, coincidentally, to run a 4-out configuration with a baseline runner for all the reasons you list, so we are definitely on the same page there! Curious why when the ball goes to that baseline runner you have your team consider it a post, because if we’re attacking a zone it’s likely there’s a cutter from a previous pass cutting through the high post (logo). After all, isn’t that high/low action (nail’em/flank’em) what we are looking for? Don’t we want automaticity around the high post cutting when the SC gets it and vice-versa?
Crazy thought: Since my 7th/8th grade teams play against zones about 80% of the time (unfortunate but true), would it make sense for me to not even teach the laker cuts off the post pass? With someone running the baseline and someone else already cutting, it seems it would be pretty crowded… What would I be giving up by treating all inside catches as cutter catches, but still teaching “post moves” out of that?
Are you coaching high school? What age? Thanks for your excellent and thoughtful responses!
todd
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First off, my teams were 7th and 8th grade, with several of my players “playing up” because they were younger. We were only able to practice twice a week (travel team). If we were able to master the attack, I’m sure you will. As I mentioned, the whole point of the 4 out/SC formation is its’ simplicity.
When I ran this attack (a few years back), Rick had not introduced the nail/flank yet. This action puts tremendous pressure on the defense as it must figure out which cutter to defend, it cannot defend both. When the ball goes into the SC (flank), that player will have two cutters to chose from. Spacing and timing is important to maximize each opportunity. First, the person in the logo area flashes to an open spot. If he doesn’t get a pass right away, they must vacate quickly to make space for the laker cutter, as well as avoid a three second call.
This “back-to-back cutter” action takes advantage of the fact that the zone struggles to guard this action i.e., if it covers the first cutter, it will temporarily vacate the space the second cutter will occupy.
Finally, teach the laker cut. The players must learn to cut after they pass to a true post player. No exceptions. -
Love the double-cutter idea and plan to use it. But it sounds like that only occurs when the SC receives the pass. If it goes into the logo area, the SC cuts across the lane but there’s no one cutting from the perimeter, right? Did your kids have trouble remembering to cut if it goes to the SC but not to cut when it goes to the high post? Was the main trigger for that decision more about WHO was receiving the pass (“If it goes to Zach, our post player running the baseline, cut, but not anyone else…”), or was it really more about WHERE the pass went (high post vs short corner)?
Good stuff!
todd -
My kids had no problem with not cutting when the ball went to the logo. They intrinsically understood the difference between passing to the logo vs. the SC. I wish I could say it was great coaching, but it wasn’t.
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Very cool. This has been incredibly helpful because I’m going to go in that exact same direction. Would love to stay in touch.
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This was a fun thread to read! Thanks Ralph, for answering the questions. I could not have said it better! And thanks Coach Todd for digging in. I appreciate your attention to detail.
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Yes Ralph was on it– huge thanks! And it’s for sure good to know his advice has your blessing, Rick. Can’t wait to get it started this year.
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